mimino
Senior ZX2ner
Posts: 354
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Post by mimino on Jan 4, 2021 22:44:15 GMT -5
So I've noticed the new thunderbird turbo I got was still seeping oil thru the turbine section, so I dropped a clear hose and shot some vids with the car all the way to the ground. First vid I didn't have the top of the hose clamped, so it spilled some oil out of at the end. You can see the oil backing up into the turbo. I changed my oil not that long ago and filled it up to about 4.75 quarts or so. Drained about half a quart and shot the second video with the clamp on top this time. Didn't look like it was backing up anymore, but you can still see some of the oil exiting out of the turbine section (look to the left and a little up of where the top hose clamp is). I've never had issues with the VJ11 and this drain location and the oil restrictor I'm running. The turbine wheel was squeaky clean when I removed it to swap this in. Never leaked out the center section either. I'm running my oil feed from the head, where the thermostat housing is located. I'm really surprised to see how much oil it's flowing when I rev it up, especially since I'm running a restrictor. I'm leaning towards the seal being shot. The old thunderbird hot section was covered in soot, as well as the turbine wheel when i separated them for installation into VJ11's hot side, so that tells me it's not a new problem. Junk yard i bought it from told me to beat it, so here's that lol video 1: video 2: Pics of my (ugly ass) drain. I really need to clean some of this shit up lol
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Post by krux303 on Jan 5, 2021 7:08:37 GMT -5
I'm no turbo expert but it does seem like a lot of oil dumping also like no restriction. The restriction is still in the oil feed line right?
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mimino
Senior ZX2ner
Posts: 354
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Post by mimino on Jan 5, 2021 10:13:03 GMT -5
I'm no turbo expert but it does seem like a lot of oil dumping also like no restriction. The restriction is still in the oil feed line right? yezzir. i do have another restrictor I'm going to try to install tonight. usually journal bearing turbos like this one do not need any restrictors, but i can't imagine what it would look like then lol i need to see if i can find any tech info on what 87-88 ford thunderbirds run on oil pressure. i get about 70 psi from the head at a cold start, but as you saw it doesn't cause any gushing, only during acceleration. Once warmed up, it follows the 10psi/1k rpm "rule" pretty good. i doubt the oil pressure in the head is higher than it would otherwise be if i routed it to the block instead.
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Post by krux303 on Jan 5, 2021 20:12:41 GMT -5
I'm no turbo expert but it does seem like a lot of oil dumping also like no restriction. The restriction is still in the oil feed line right? yezzir. i do have another restrictor I'm going to try to install tonight. usually journal bearing turbos like this one do not need any restrictors, but i can't imagine what it would look like then lol i need to see if i can find any tech info on what 87-88 ford thunderbirds run on oil pressure. i get about 70 psi from the head at a cold start, but as you saw it doesn't cause any gushing, only during acceleration. Once warmed up, it follows the 10psi/1k rpm "rule" pretty good. i doubt the oil pressure in the head is higher than it would otherwise be if i routed it to the block instead. I would think head pressure would be reduced as well compared to the block. Let us know on the restriction. I like your pipe fitting going into the pan .
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mimino
Senior ZX2ner
Posts: 354
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Post by mimino on Jan 5, 2021 23:32:01 GMT -5
yezzir. i do have another restrictor I'm going to try to install tonight. usually journal bearing turbos like this one do not need any restrictors, but i can't imagine what it would look like then lol i need to see if i can find any tech info on what 87-88 ford thunderbirds run on oil pressure. i get about 70 psi from the head at a cold start, but as you saw it doesn't cause any gushing, only during acceleration. Once warmed up, it follows the 10psi/1k rpm "rule" pretty good. i doubt the oil pressure in the head is higher than it would otherwise be if i routed it to the block instead. I would think head pressure would be reduced as well compared to the block. Let us know on the restriction. I like your pipe fitting going into the pan . lol it was some galvanized metal pipe fittings from one of the box stores. should've used an hardware instead. i have a spare pan that i might tinker with to clean this mess up.
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Post by TheEvilZX2 on Jan 8, 2021 18:30:48 GMT -5
wow howd i miss this...
if youre not feeding it too much oil pressure then its got to be the seals right? if not what, the chra cracked or something else weird?
another thing, im in the same boat here with my turbo car, oil drain is in the pan and not the windage tray below oil level right?...was that you that had the welded fitting interfere with the rods?
my issue is different, pretty sure at a standstill or downhill my drain backs up and then blows some oil out the turbine side and makes a little exhaust smoke show, toss it a few revs and it cleans up tho
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mimino
Senior ZX2ner
Posts: 354
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Post by mimino on Jan 8, 2021 19:00:40 GMT -5
yup, that was me. i've posted this to our fb group and guys are mainly running theirs to the windage tray. i'd drill a hole out and get a plug welded, if you want to go that route. i do believe the seals are shot on this one, as my VJ11 never gave me these issues before. I'm running a restrictor as well (1.5mm). The insides of this one looked coked, so maybe some oil port is still plugged up. I did leave some chemtool B-12 in it overnight hoping it will break some of this crud up. I'm thinking about just swapping the wheel and comp housing over to my fresh VJ11 and then having it balanced. I hate taking this shit out because of one of the manifold nuts is a total bitch to get out. I just ordered a pcv plate/cover that I will drill and insert a fitting into to replace my current pcv baffle that's taking up the much-needed room as well.
how many quarts are you running in yours? might want to take about 1/2 out and see if it gets any better. what do you mean at standstill? just idling? grab a clear hose and slap it on, then check cold/hot idle. even tho my head is showing 70psi at cold idle, the flow to the turbo is anemic. at hot 20psi idle it's at least 2x as much.
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Post by TheEvilZX2 on Jan 8, 2021 19:29:35 GMT -5
oh i know what im going to do. just need to get measurements right and pull windage tray and have someone weld it for me.
i run it around a quart low lol it does help a bit, and i run good oil (amsoil signature series 5w30). definitely want to get this sorted when i swap to the built motor.
ive got an aluminum NPT male to male that im going to cut to angle and trim as necessary, have it welded, cut and smooth hole, have welded again from inside possibly then redo my drain. thinking i might make and flare some hard line for it...undecided. not a big deal for me at the moment cuz it chills in the garage most of the year, and when its driven it doesnt spend much time sitting still.
yeah it will do it when idling for more than a few minutes (not always) but more likely to do it while nosed downhill which leads me to believe its oil drain backup. wish i could just swap a clear line in like you, i did my drain in -12AN stainless braided line....not quite as easy to switch as push on hose
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mimino
Senior ZX2ner
Posts: 354
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Post by mimino on Jan 9, 2021 13:27:18 GMT -5
oh i know what im going to do. just need to get measurements right and pull windage tray and have someone weld it for me. i run it around a quart low lol it does help a bit, and i run good oil (amsoil signature series 5w30). definitely want to get this sorted when i swap to the built motor. ive got an aluminum NPT male to male that im going to cut to angle and trim as necessary, have it welded, cut and smooth hole, have welded again from inside possibly then redo my drain. thinking i might make and flare some hard line for it...undecided. not a big deal for me at the moment cuz it chills in the garage most of the year, and when its driven it doesnt spend much time sitting still. yeah it will do it when idling for more than a few minutes (not always) but more likely to do it while nosed downhill which leads me to believe its oil drain backup. wish i could just swap a clear line in like you, i did my drain in -12AN stainless braided line....not quite as easy to switch as push on hose oh, i see. could you post a pic of how it looks? 12an is what the hose size i'm running. i wonder how small that -an male fitting connecting part gets? i know it's about 0.6" inside diameter for the hose, but the fitting's opening has to be quite a bit smaller than that. still probably not what the issue is. it is super weird that it's happening at idle for you. i assume you're running it from the block and have a restrictor?
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Post by TheEvilZX2 on Jan 9, 2021 21:40:44 GMT -5
sorry to hijack your thread with this lol
pics are on first post in my build thread i do believe, link in sig. welded barbed fitting in oil pan at angle, -12an 45deg adapter on drain flange. IIRC the ID on the fitting is .5in.
ive had the issue when first running unrestricted from the port in head behind coil pack. and have a vibrant fitting with adjustable/replaceable restrictors and it does it with all of them lol
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mimino
Senior ZX2ner
Posts: 354
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Post by mimino on Jan 9, 2021 22:25:26 GMT -5
sorry to hijack your thread with this lol pics are on first post in my build thread i do believe, link in sig. welded barbed fitting in oil pan at angle, -12an 45deg adapter on drain flange. IIRC the ID on the fitting is .5in. ive had the issue when first running unrestricted from the port in head behind coil pack. and have a vibrant fitting with adjustable/replaceable restrictors and it does it with all of them lol hmm. this looks perfectly fine, but i wonder if you can get a 45 deg elbow off the pan, then a fitting so it doesn't bottom out when it enters the pan? that bottom part of the hose is probably full of oil. i'd still try to grab some clear hose and throw it on there.
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Post by TheEvilZX2 on Jan 10, 2021 16:13:13 GMT -5
I'm gonna bring it up into the windage tray and over so its more of a straight run, just so there is no question of the drain being submerged....whenever I get around to it that is. Its still the same as in the pic. It looks good in the pic but remember the angle of the engine. With engine off and turbo removed oil level is like halfway up the drain line. Proposed location for above mentioned fix. I do believe this the location recommended drain location
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mimino
Senior ZX2ner
Posts: 354
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Post by mimino on Jan 10, 2021 17:30:44 GMT -5
looks like a good spot if you can make it run down without bottoming out anywhere. is your turbo sitting pretty low as is?
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Post by TheEvilZX2 on Jan 10, 2021 19:24:46 GMT -5
idk, i dont think its very low anyhow. im running an SPA manifold and it keeps the turbo pretty high and tucked in to the block i think...
also forgot to mention the fitting in the oil pan is angled up as much as we could get it, its nowhere near a 45 but it is a few degrees up...still not the greatest
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mimino
Senior ZX2ner
Posts: 354
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Post by mimino on Jan 16, 2021 18:05:47 GMT -5
was fucking around with replacing my pcv baffle with one of those aftermarket plates with a fitting on it. Something like this: installed it and went for a drive. Ended up dumping about a quart of oil in-between the 2 runs i did yesterday (my line is vented to the ground). apparently, it needs a baffle that's gonna stop the oil from coming out, so I had to switch back to my stock one and no issues. Shined my little camera in there and you can see the crank and the rods thru that whole. it's insane how much oil was coming out of that hole. Thought I was missing rings at first, but this thread gave me hope: www.focusfanatics.com/threads/jayracing-crankcase-block-off-plate.170721/baffle example:
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Post by TheEvilZX2 on Jan 16, 2021 19:12:29 GMT -5
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mimino
Senior ZX2ner
Posts: 354
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Post by mimino on Jan 16, 2021 20:25:04 GMT -5
not unless you make damn sure it has a good baffle on the other side lol i've heard focus guys were not having good luck with cfm either. i'm pretty sure i'm using a short baffle out of a ford contour. it's still a bitch to get it in/out with the turbo there, but way, way better than that stock monstrosity. skip to 18th minute here:
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Post by felixkoch2312 on Mar 15, 2021 12:45:50 GMT -5
not unless you make damn sure it has a good baffle on the other side lol i've heard focus guys were not having good luck with cfm either. i'm pretty sure i'm using a short baffle out of a ford contour. it's still a bitch to get it in/out with the turbo there, but way, way better than that stock monstrosity. skip to 18th minute here: This video really help out
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mimino
Senior ZX2ner
Posts: 354
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Post by mimino on Apr 2, 2021 11:54:56 GMT -5
got her retuned with the new turbo (VC32 T-bird). Picked up 33 horse on the mustang dyno, so pushing about 231hp right now (+15% if dynojet). Man, she's a ripper! Does anyone happen to have any dyno graphs from what a stock zx2 curve looks like? My tuner things my exhaust is restricted, so we wanted to check the stock curve. I'm 2.5" dp and out into a borla muffler from the truebendz kit. might need to drop it and see if that could be a restriction as well. i mean, it's still a tiny turbo at the end of the day. the exhaust wheel is 52.5mm and the elbow that connects from the turbine to the dp is less than 2". that could be another restriction right there.
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Post by krux303 on Apr 2, 2021 18:49:43 GMT -5
got her retuned with the new turbo (VC32 T-bird). Picked up 33 horse on the mustang dyno, so pushing about 231hp right now (+15% if dynojet). Man, she's a ripper! Does anyone happen to have any dyno graphs from what a stock zx2 curve looks like? My tuner things my exhaust is restricted, so we wanted to check the stock curve. I'm 2.5" dp and out into a borla muffler from the truebendz kit. might need to drop it and see if that could be a restriction as well. i mean, it's still a tiny turbo at the end of the day. the exhaust wheel is 52.5mm and the elbow that connects from the turbine to the dp is less than 2". that could be another restriction right there. Super jealous. I wish I had that much power. I was tempted to find a real tuning shop at one point to build a turbo kit and tune it for me.
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Post by TheEvilZX2 on Apr 2, 2021 21:25:57 GMT -5
gotta be the 2in dp elbow. my turbine wheel small side is 55.5mm and i made a 2.5in downpipe all the way back to the same trubendz 2.5 (no cat no res) to the borla proxs straight thru muffler. if you look in my build log virtual dynos my powerband is much higher, however my compressor housing is much larger as well.
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mimino
Senior ZX2ner
Posts: 354
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Post by mimino on Apr 3, 2021 0:50:25 GMT -5
gotta be the 2in dp elbow. my turbine wheel small side is 55.5mm and i made a 2.5in downpipe all the way back to the same trubendz 2.5 (no cat no res) to the borla proxs straight thru muffler. if you look in my build log virtual dynos my powerband is much higher, however my compressor housing is much larger as well. 52.5mm is right around 2 inches, so that's what that elbow has to be. i also don't have cats or a res, and that muffler is probably the same borla as yours. i checked it earlier today and it was a straight-thru. i might take the elbow off and see if i can port it out, but i'm quite happy with where she is right now, especially given the stock internals. krux, yeah having this guy so close is a god send, for sure.
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Post by krux303 on Apr 3, 2021 6:16:05 GMT -5
gotta be the 2in dp elbow. my turbine wheel small side is 55.5mm and i made a 2.5in downpipe all the way back to the same trubendz 2.5 (no cat no res) to the borla proxs straight thru muffler. if you look in my build log virtual dynos my powerband is much higher, however my compressor housing is much larger as well. 52.5mm is right around 2 inches, so that's what that elbow has to be. i also don't have cats or a res, and that muffler is probably the same borla as yours. i checked it earlier today and it was a straight-thru. i might take the elbow off and see if i can port it out, but i'm quite happy with where she is right now, especially given the stock internals. krux, yeah having this guy so close is a god send, for sure. What are you using for tuning PRP SCT?
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Post by TheEvilZX2 on Apr 3, 2021 9:02:02 GMT -5
gotta be the 2in dp elbow. my turbine wheel small side is 55.5mm and i made a 2.5in downpipe all the way back to the same trubendz 2.5 (no cat no res) to the borla proxs straight thru muffler. if you look in my build log virtual dynos my powerband is much higher, however my compressor housing is much larger as well. 52.5mm is right around 2 inches, so that's what that elbow has to be. i also don't have cats or a res, and that muffler is probably the same borla as yours. i checked it earlier today and it was a straight-thru. i might take the elbow off and see if i can port it out, but i'm quite happy with where she is right now, especially given the stock internals. krux, yeah having this guy so close is a god send, for sure. Its the pipe choking you or the turbine housing, your wheel isnt much smaller than mine. My downpipe has an expander from 2.0 to 2.5 welded straight on the flange and I just cut the 2.5 pipe carefully to make the bend and welded it all up. So my turbo is a 2.0 leaving the turbine itself, but transitions to 2.5 right there and is 2.5 all the way back
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mimino
Senior ZX2ner
Posts: 354
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Post by mimino on Apr 3, 2021 9:48:54 GMT -5
52.5mm is right around 2 inches, so that's what that elbow has to be. i also don't have cats or a res, and that muffler is probably the same borla as yours. i checked it earlier today and it was a straight-thru. i might take the elbow off and see if i can port it out, but i'm quite happy with where she is right now, especially given the stock internals. krux, yeah having this guy so close is a god send, for sure. Its the pipe choking you or the turbine housing, your wheel isnt much smaller than mine. My downpipe has an expander from 2.0 to 2.5 welded straight on the flange and I just cut the 2.5 pipe carefully to make the bend and welded it all up. So my turbo is a 2.0 leaving the turbine itself, but transitions to 2.5 right there and is 2.5 all the way back yeah, it's gotta be that elbow. i'm 2.5" dp all the way to the muffler. i'll see if i can source a bigger one from mx-6 guys. not sure exactly what he uses, but here's what his web-site says: "For Ford Motor Company vehicle custom calibrations we use Binary Editor, SCT, Diablosport and HPTuners."
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Post by TheEvilZX2 on Apr 3, 2021 10:10:45 GMT -5
this is TheEvilZX2's dyno when NA, not stock but as close as i can provide : evilzx2s.com/thread/85/theevilzx2-dyno-over-years-oldfirst post on my worklog, scroll down a bit will have my virtualdynos at 7psi and 8.5psi : evilzx2s.com/thread/4/theevilzx2s-worklogalso, after looking at my pics scrolling down i was mistaken above, my first downpipe was 3in with a 2.5 to 3in adapter at the flange. my turbo is 2.5in outlet on the turbine housing, t3/t04e. so my downpipe is 2.5in from turbine housing all the way back to the borla muffler, same setup you have. virtualdynos in my worklog are all on this setup
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Post by krux303 on Apr 3, 2021 11:54:00 GMT -5
this is TheEvilZX2's dyno when NA, not stock but as close as i can provide : evilzx2s.com/thread/85/theevilzx2-dyno-over-years-oldfirst post on my worklog, scroll down a bit will have my virtualdynos at 7psi and 8.5psi : evilzx2s.com/thread/4/theevilzx2s-worklogalso, after looking at my pics scrolling down i was mistaken above, my first downpipe was 3in with a 2.5 to 3in adapter at the flange. my turbo is 2.5in outlet on the turbine housing, t3/t04e. so my downpipe is 2.5in from turbine housing all the way back to the borla muffler, same setup you have. virtualdynos in my worklog are all on this setup That NA whp is very impressive.
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mimino
Senior ZX2ner
Posts: 354
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Post by mimino on Apr 3, 2021 13:20:58 GMT -5
yeah, those numbers are ridiculous for those mods lol that dyno is definitely a confidence booster haha
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Post by TheEvilZX2 on Apr 4, 2021 7:28:25 GMT -5
numbers can be disputed if you want, they are uncorrected numbers after all. the point was to show the powerband.
my NA dyno tapers off a bit after the peak, but my turbo logs do not show this quite as much as yours.
youve definitely got something restricting your higher rpms just a bit
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mimino
Senior ZX2ner
Posts: 354
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Post by mimino on Apr 4, 2021 13:11:10 GMT -5
numbers can be disputed if you want, they are uncorrected numbers after all. the point was to show the powerband. my NA dyno tapers off a bit after the peak, but my turbo logs do not show this quite as much as yours. youve definitely got something restricting your higher rpms just a bit yezzir, was not knocking those, just surprised at how much it was showing
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